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RE: [N8VEM-S100:4650] hot rodding (really 74ls682)



Court the 74ALS520’s show for P=Q,  15 ns (max 33ns) on the TI datasheet.  This is actually worse than the 74LS682’s, 13 ns, max 25 ns.

I would rather not use the F512’s (6.6 ns, max 10ns). The pull-up resistor network not only tales up more space but seems to make things difficult for the Freerouter to reduce overall board trace lengths.  For simple boards not a problem, but on our more complex CPU boards etc.  it’s an issue.    I rarely use P>Q. I do on the 80386 RAM daughter board for protected memory (> 16M) addressing – as an option -- since it is the wild west space wise, and it would allow you to adders a block at an oddball location.

 

 

 

From: n8vem...@googlegroups.com [mailto:n8vem...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of curt mayer
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 12:10 AM
To: n8vem...@googlegroups.com
Cc: mon...@vitasoft.org
Subject: Re: [N8VEM-S100:4650] hot rodding (really 74ls682)

 


argh.  to think my parts box has unobtainium in it!  nobody sells f520's any more...  I've looked into the 8 bit comparator thing pretty hard, and the ALS520's still exist at ti, and they have a significant edge on the ls682's, although not at much as the F520's.  if you had external pull-ups, then the F521s could be used, at a smoking 7ns typical.  mouser had both F521's and ALS520's.

 

when do you use the P>Q output?

 

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 3:02:31 PM UTC-7, monahanz wrote:

Good point Curt, and definitely not a whine.  I had not really looked at the F520’s before.    To some extent you are comparing apples to oranges.

For P=Q on the LS682’s the typical delay is 13 ns, max 25 ns (TI datasheet).   For P=Q for the F520 its 5 and 5.5.  However that’s a 74Fxx part,   I cannot find a corresponding LS520 datasheet.

The delay is more a function of the 74LS/74F part rather than the internal chip layout.  A brief look on the web did not turn up 74F682’s or 74ALS682’s.  If they exist, I bet they would be comparable to the 520.

Where are you getting your F520’s from BTW.

Going forward, since I really use the LS682 pin 1 (used for P>Q), we could have a jumper to allow either chip on the board.

 

John

 

 

 

 

From: n8ve...@googlegroups.com [mailto:n8ve...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of curt mayer
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 2:09 PM
To: n8ve...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [N8VEM-S100:4644] hot rodding (really 74ls682)

 

A lot of these designs want to be pushed a little for clock rate, and It feels really odd sticking a slow part like a 'ls682 in my critical address decode path, especially when it's cascaded like in the rom/ram board.  sticking 35 ns memory in there and then blowing another 30 ns just to decode the address lines to get a chip select will keep you from running at 10mhz without wait states.  an 'F520 will do the same job in half the time, if you ground the unused p>q output; so all my '520s in '682 sockets have pin 1 lifted and wired to ground with a scrap of kynar.  and my chip selects come out 10ns earlier.

 

it this just a whine?  I really dislike the '682, since you can't get any faster parts with this pinout that have the internal pullup.

 

--curt, on a quest for a 12mhz s100 0WS z80.

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